User talk:Cottrells

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== Contributions Changed ==
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== Problems with Templates and Image Maps ==
  
Hi Steve<br>I was just over at some of the pages that I developed in Suffolk. I took 24 pages in Hoxne Hundred and see now that Djbrewer (this person has no user page so I know nothing about them) has decided to add his or her flavor to them. I spent hours and days of editing and rewritng them to get them to that point and to see that is disheartening. I personally consider it unprofessional rude and insulting. I'm surely not going to take my time to develope pages to see them being altered like that. There are 500 parishes in Suffolk, all I was working on was 25 of them. This is the second time this has happened where someone alphabetically goes through parishes and makes changes without any regard for what is there. It don't make sense for me to go through and undo time and time again what I create on pages. I'll come back next month and see what is going on. [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 02:38, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Steve, I am currently involved with an ongoing Massachusetts Wiki Project. David Dilts suggested that I contact you. Lately I have been working on creating some clickable maps. I recently added a clickable map for Plymouth County, Massachusetts (See [[:Template:PlyCoMAmap]]). In the past when I created a clickable map we added the information to a template page because there is so much wiki code associated with the image map. I added the Plymouth County map the same way I have in the past but ran into some unexpected results. I was able to finagle the template page so that it will show the map when users go to the template page. However, if they try to edit the template page, instead of seeing all the wiki code, they see a message "Error: image is invalid or non-existent." If a person was to make any modification to the page and then save, the map will disappear and it is no longer functionable. Can you tell me why we get an error message when we click on edit? Where is all the wiki data used to make the map clickable going? The map continues to works just fine. Should I be doing something different as I add more clickable maps?
  
:Hi Don, I sympathise with you, seeing your contributions effectively ignored. I hope to attend the [[FamilySearch Wiki:Contributors Meeting|Contributors Meeting]] webinar this evening and I will raise this issue. I have a feeling that the contributor in question is a volunteer at the [[Family History Library]] and has been assigned a task and is following it without considering the effects. Please know that your contribution are valued and I hope to resolve this inconsiderate removal of your welcome additions. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 16:22, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
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In addition to what I mentioned above, when I go to the template pages we created for putting our map images on (see [[:Template:MAPlyAbiMap]]), all I see is the name of the image, orientation details, and picture description. Where did our image go? The image no longer shows. The map displays on the Wiki pages we insert the template code on, but the template itself is confusing to me. Any thoughts? I will be adding roughly 300 clickable maps over the next month and want to make sure that I do it the right way. Any help you can give would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. [[User:HarrisonJB|HarrisonJB]] 17:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)  
  
Hi Steve, I see the problem is not with the volunteers. There basically doing what there being told to do. The Family History Library is following a unwritten rule book that uses volunteers that have no user page to identify themselves and do not participate in the contributors England Parish pages. They alphabetically go down a list of parishes making changes. The few parish pages I created did not look like all the others so they make it conform. I created those pages to be expanded upon not to be torn down. The volunteers are not independent enough to think outside of what they have been told. <br> As a result I was not aware that the two online National Gazetteers are approved for introductory comments. I use county gazetteers that are online. I also see that a draft census template is being put on every page. I created alternate census templates that are just ignored. It appears that it is ignored because I am not part of the club. <br> Maybe its not a good idea that I don't add anything more until the unwritten rule book becomes transparent. [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 23:26, 6 July 2012 (UTC)  
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:Hi Jason, the problem with the imagemaps is a [[FamilySearch Wiki:Known Issues#Image_Map_issue|known issue]]. The workaround is to add the [[Magic word]] <nowiki>__</nowiki>NORICHEDITOR<nowiki>__</nowiki> to the template (within noinclude tags), so that the [[Rich Text Editor]] is disabled when you edit the imagemap. I have edited {{tl|PlyCoMAmap}} so that this is now in place. The other template was set-up by [[User:DiltsGD|David]] as a way to add a caption to the image that is displayed on the page [[Abington, Massachusetts]] without subsequent edits removing it. This is another workaround to a problem caused by the [[Rich Text Editor]]. If you want to change this into an imagemap, you will also need to edit the code on the [[Abington, Massachusetts]] so that it just calls the template, stripping away the <nowiki>[[Image:</nowiki> and ]] parts of the code. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
  
:Hi Don, I don't think there are "approved" and "non-approved" sources. Surely if multiple sources are available each have their merit. My personal opinion is that short excerpts are given from the sources available, with external links to the whole text, if it is available online, or quoting a {{wpd|ISBN}}, {{wpd|WorldCat}} and/or other references to help others find a copy of the source.
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== England Gazetteers  ==
:I agree it would aid in collaboration if the plans that staff and volunteers from the [[FHL]] are working to were added to the wiki. The signs are there that a co-ordinated effort is being worked on, but this is not shared beyond the [[FHL]]. I'm going to be attending the [[FamilySearch Wiki:Contributors Meeting|Contributors Meeting]] later and will raise this issue. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Steve, I got the impression from the volunteer when I inquired as to why he changed the some of the pages I developed. A lot of excuses and one of them is directions from the Library Staff. The material and source that I had there was replaced with such inferior material. This discussion needs to continue on the England Project page. The 'Vision of Britain' is a good gazetteer but is is not Parish History material for the most part. Many parishes are very small and have only a few sentences in the gazetteer. It really don't make sense to take a few sentences and reduce it down to a few more sentences and call that the parish history excerpt. It looks like systematically this is what is being done to every parish. There is a Gazetteer section on every page that one would think is where gazetteer entries would go. I'll post my thoughts on that over on the England Project pages. [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 06:13, 14 July 2012 (UTC)  
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There still seems to be FHL contributors working on alphabetical listings from a single source conflicting with contributors who have contributed local knowledge of parishes and the record sources - [[Downe, Kent]] - [[Keston, Kent]] - [[Cudham, Kent]] as well as neighbouring parishes all have Online Parish Clerks. Some colleagues are unwilling to take the time and effort to create FamilySearch Wiki content to have gazetteer material entered and conflicting. In some counties large slabs of material exist as parish history which are in fact text from other web sites (including copyright). I have made the point in forum post that an 1848 gazetteer entry may not be useful, a later gazetter may be more informative and the Kent Online Parish Clerk site has even more information including a satellite image and might be a more informative link to include under the "maps and gazetteer" heading rather than dropping gazetteer entries for an entire county into parish history pages. This seems to be a recipe for needless discussion and conflict in every English county. Many English contributors have ceased contributing citing lack of communication from FHL contributors. We do not seem to be any "further forrarder" on this issue than earlier this year or in any of the previous years it has arisen! I think it sad that we are alienating English genealogists and AGRA members through unresolved organisational problems arising from America.If possible could you convey that it might be better to work with an Online Parish Clerk who has invested huge effort in a parish history and records rather than drop in gazetteer material as part of a mechanical process in alphabetical order; the heading gazetteer is also a clue to where such entries should be placed. [[User:DowneOPC|DowneOPC]] 06:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
  
:Hi Don, hopefully I will soon be able to talk with those who are directing the work of the Library staff and volunteers, with a view to understand their goals and help them understand that there are other contributors willing to help. What we need is to align our efforts so that we don't work at cross purposes. Thank you for comments. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Henry, this issue was discussed during the weekly [[Wiki Contributors Meeting]] on November 8, as a result of [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/forums/en/showthread.php?t=19630 your forum post] on the issue. Those attending the meeting agreed to the points that you raised. Some wondered why the change was not just made and explain in the edit summary or on the article talk page. I sence that UK based contributors are trying to engage with FHL staff about developing pages/edits, but do not receive replies to their questions. Anyhow following the meeting I moved the gazetter text from the history section to the gazetter section of the [[Downe, Kent]] article and left a message on the [[User talk:WrightLG#Downe.2C_Kent|user talk page of the contributor]]. Hopefully the message will get back to the staff at the FHL to be more considerate of the information already developed on a page, before adding additional information. I agree that a multi sourced parish history is preferable to a single source gazetteer extract. Would you and other OPC/AGRA members be willing to help develop the instructions for developing English Parish articles in the [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes|WikiProject English parishes]]? --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
  
=== Policy changes  ===
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<br> Thanks, in answer to your final question I can only speak personally and will try to contribute wherever possible. I lead a group of transcribers. We have 3 parish Cooperative Indexing agreements in place with FamilySearch which await a response from them and we hope to obtain Diocesan permission to add a further parish for agreement to transcribe in 2014. The agreements are taking more than 6 months for FamilySearch to respond to once submitted with both archive and Diocesan approval and support. Wherever possible I try to describe the surviving record which I am permitted to handle in order that the viewer of a microfilm or digitised image can make sense of the images, duplicates and why entries appear out of sequence, gaps and other unique aspects of an individual register.(One Downe register has been bound in a deed which bears no relationship to the parish) As volunteers our priority is to transcribe so that writing parish histories is the latter stage of OPC page development of our site and involves a different type of research in many source materials which we include in our page creation. Any contribution to other media (print and electronic) is a lower priority. FamilySearch material forms a small part of the total parish material; the larger part is on average spread in up to 14 archives for a typical Kent parish. Another high priority is to respond to email requests for assistance in researching within a local district including the parish concerned.
  
::Since it appears Steve is considering this issue seriously and may consider policy changes I feel comments by other contributors are appropriate.
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I am afraid that in the professional community in England that many contributors have reported negative experiences of trying to contribute and the Americanised format (and language) of the FamilySearch wiki derivative of Wikipedia. Sadly each contributor lost is influential in influencing others. There is an effort in Wikipedia to cover all civil parishes in England and local county initiatives to list places of worship. I would comment that Wikipedia went through this process early in its development; there was an American perception that English contributors were "difficult" to involve or retain. There was likewise an English perception that if contributing became a negative experience it was better not to invest time and effort to see content removed or "put down" by a small clique appearing to dominate. Here the FHL contributors need not to alienate or appear to be more influential but to enter into discussion about use of a source to complement the existing contributions. Gazetteers (plural) are cited on all Kent Online Parish Clerk page creations which begs&nbsp; the question why not link in the relevant heading to that available online source rather than paste material for one gazetteer only?
  
::I don't believe that there is even an issue here. This appears to be a simple example of {{Wpd|Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|BRD}}, which stands for: be &lt; bold &gt; and make the changes that you believe are necessary - if anyone else disagrees with the change &lt; revert &gt; it - and if the person making the change feels strongly about then it is time to &lt; discuss&gt;. I believe Familysearches version of this is at [[FamilySearch Wiki:Guiding Principles#Be_Bold|FamilySearch Wiki:Guiding Principles-Bold]]. To ask permission of previous editors before making changes will bring this wiki to a screeching halt.
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== Template on a non-activated category. ==
  
::In addition, since this was originally an issue about content on a page, it should have been brought up on that page's talk page. I'm really shocked to see Donjgen calling other wiki users "'''unprofessional and rude'''" on their [[User talk:Djbrewer|talk page]] and again on an administrator's talk page simply for making a change he disagreed with. Calling other contributors "unprofessional and rude" on their talk page and again "unprofessional rude and insulting" on an administrators talk page is disruptive and violates FamilySearch Wiki's [[FamilySearch Wiki:Talk page guidelines#Behavior_that_is_unacceptable|Talk page guidelines:Behavior that is unacceptable]]. Perhaps he was just upset, but that is no excuse. Furthermore, giving the other contributor only 23 minutes to respond before taking the complaint to an administrator is at best unreasonable. [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 01:00, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
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The template page [[Template:Xyzy]] is on a non-activated Category page: Category:Script templates. Do we need it? Or do you want this category activitied. [[User:Sandralpond|Sandralpond]] 15:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)  
  
:::Yes I would not want to see a situation where contributors didn't want to make any change without consulting other previous contributor. We must remember to [[FamilySearch Wiki:Assume good faith|assume good faith]]. However it is also worth explaining edits using the edit summary (which many contributors do not) or even better, and of great help to explain major changes, to use the talk page of the article. I do think in the example Don has encountered that contributors are following a "script" and changing page to conform to a [[FHL]] basic guideline, without taking into account a page that has been developed beyond the basic form they have in mind. Hopefully we can get the people involved on all sides to talk through the issues and find a way to work together to improve the wiki. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
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:Thanks Sandra, the template is needed/used and the category is appropriate. I have today set it up. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 14:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  
== Templates on the Spanish wiki ==
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== Thank you ==
  
I have recently created several [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/es/Categor%C3%ADa:Plantillas templates] for the Spanish wiki. Users on the [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/es Spanish wiki] can now create navigational templates as well as flag pages for deletion-(now fixed) and merging. I also created a translation template that allows users to flag a page and point to the page on the English or other language wikis. I was wondering if you think it would be a good idea to add the ability to point to the page on other language wikis to the {{Tl|Translation needed}} template as well. Also, I created the translation templates with the format parameter 1 = page name and parameter 2 = country code, but I'm wondering if that should be reversed. Either way I think the format should be the same for all translation templates. The problem with country code first is that it makes the country code required all the time unless parameters are named and does not allow for a simple default. At least that is my understanding. H-langs has the opposite format. Let me know what you think. [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 01:48, 30 June 2012 (UTC)  
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Steve thanks so much for the FA change. [[User:HoleDL|Dawne]] 14:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)  
  
:Hi Lotje2, if you haven't already I would suggest contacting [[User:Ccsmith|Charles Smith]] who has been working on the other language wikis. I'm sure he would welcome the contact.
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== FHL template for an author search? ==
:Can you explain, with an example, your suggestion for the {{tl|Translation needed}} on that template's [[Template talk:Translation needed|talk page]]. I'm not sure I completely understand what you would like to achieve, regardless of how it is implemented - what do you envision? I think you would like to add a link from say the English wiki for a given article to a different language wiki for the article that has been translated. Or have I misunderstood.
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:I can see that you created the template {{tl|ill-2}}. Looking at this it seems to have the first unamed parameter as {{xt|language code}}, second parameter (optional) {{xt|page name}}. Is this the template to which you are referring?  
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:With unamed parameters you can set a default by using the code {{color|purple|<tt><nowiki>{{{1|default}}}</nowiki></tt>}}
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:{{tl|H-langs}} is different in that it uses named parameters for each language code with the page name/title as the value.
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:--[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:19, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
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::Hi Steve, yes I see what you mean about {{tl|H-langs}} being different. Nevertheless, since it uses the format - language code first, then page name - I think we should probably use that format to keep the templates similar and easy for users to remember, unless you can think of a compelling reason to put the language code second. I should probably change the order of the parameters on the two templates I created on the Spanish wiki so they are similar to H-langs.
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Hi, Steve. Is there an FHL template where a search can be done by name of the author? I want to be able to search for ward records, all of which have the beginning of "Church of Jesus Christ..." and end with the specific ward. That would make it easy to change ward by ward. Any ideas? [[User:AdkinsWH|AdkinsWH]] 02:59, 13 December 2012 (UTC)  
::The templates I was referring to at the beginning of my comments were the two I created on the Spanish wiki. You will see one of them if you click on the link in the example template I placed on the [[Template talk:Translation needed|talk page]] for the {{tl|Translation needed}} template.  
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::You may have misunderstood. I was not talking about creating a link in the article itself to a translated article, but a link to the requested article which may not exist yet in the {{tl|Translation needed}} template so that anyone answering the request will know where to put it. Things can often be translated several ways and someone may have a location in mind when making the request especially if they have already created red links or if the other language wiki has specific guidelines for naming.  
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::Yes {{tl|ill-2}} is the other template I was referring to.  
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::Some standard images for the templates on the Spanish wiki would be nice if anyone has time. [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 07:22, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
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:::Thanks for explaining that, of course you were referring to the templates created in the other language wikis -doh! I like you suggestion for {{tl|Translation needed}} and have added my comment to the [[Template talk:Translation needed|talk page]]. As for getting some of the standard images uploaded to the language wikis, [[User:Ccsmith|Charles Smith]] has been uploading images to these wikis. I see you have posted to his talk page about fixing a template. I'm sure that if you ask him to upload a list of images needed, that Charles will get that done. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Wilma, I have briefly looked at this issue.It may be possible to add the functionality to the {{tl|FHL}} template, but more investigation needs to be undertaken done before I can answer and hopefully implement your request. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
  
== Meesden, Hertfordshire  ==
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::Thanks, Steve! [[User:AdkinsWH|AdkinsWH]] 21:03, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
  
Steve, as I started reading over the page on Meesden, Hertfordshire. I am not sure if there is still a problem. Please Could you get me a little me insight to what has happened and you feelings. <span style="font-size:90%;">— Preceding [[FamilySearch Wiki:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jenson1|Jenson1]] ([[User talk:Jenson1|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jenson1|contribs]]) 17:46, 2 July 2012</span><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
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Hi, again, Steve. Any progress on this? I'd like to search for authors like "Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah." I think we don't have to include the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." that precedes it. Thanks again. [[User:AdkinsWH|AdkinsWH]] 18:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
  
:Hi Rorie, I had a look at the article [[Meesden, Hertfordshire]]. I could not see a problem with this article, nor is there anything on the article talk page. I see that I did make some changes to this page in January, March and May of this year. Each time I did, it was part of a process to replace some boilerplate text with a template or something more consistent with other articles. I'm not sure why you thought there was a problem! --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:52, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
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== England Parish Histories  ==
  
== Arabic message  ==
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2012 was a good year for the Suffolk Parish pages. There have been a few instances where volunteers have sought to tear down what I have built rather than improve it. What volunteers I have come across have no interest in collaborating, rather they have an agenda of copying and pasting similar dialogue on every page. What they are copying and pasting is rather weak material. Parish History Section - I cannot accept that a short one or two sentences with a link to a gazetteer should be in anyway be considered a parish history. The approach to the Parish History Section is very simple. Enter websites, links and references in the body of the page and once a sufficient amount of material has been found, then a history can be written based on those sources from a genealogist perspective. A new wiki article should be created, [[England - Writing a Parish History]]. This short gazetteer entry currently being introduced should be moved or put in the Maps and Gazetteers Section. Pertaining to Suffolk pages I noticed recently that someone is entering those gazetteer entries again and at the same time removing the link to the Suffolk Gazetteer page. Could you use the text replace function to place a link to the Suffolk Gazetteer page in the Maps and Gazetteer section for every parish in Suffolk? [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 18:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC) I'll also place a copy of this over on [[User talk:MannAE]] page.
  
I'm a bit concerned about something that has shown up today on [[Help:Creating a new WikiProject]] written in Arabic. Do you know what we should do about it? [[User:Murphynw|Murphynw]] 23:11, 14 July 2012 (UTC)  
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:Hi Don, I agree that there is room for improvement in the way that contributors work together and not at cross purposes to each other. I'm sure that the majority of wiki contributor have the same goal to improve the content of the wiki and I really feel that [[WikiProject]] pages can help with this by setting out long term vision for a collection of similar pages, for example [[Suffolk Parishes]]. Contributors by reviewing the project page information can then be directed to articles, like the one you suggested, so that a consistent approach is taken with developing similar pages. The Parish History section and what kind of content should be placed here is a good example of where this collaboration could achieve much good. I will look into restoring the links to the [[Suffolk Gazetteers]] page. Before I take action I will investigate how best to do this. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:58, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
  
:Hi Nathan, I looked at the page in question. I can see that you now resolved the issue. I would have done what you did. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:23, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Steve: I could take the time to create a [[WikiProject - Suffolk Parishes]] but I have seen such anemic participation. Since I am focusing on Suffolk, I would expect participation from people in East Anglia. There needs to be a person in East Anglia that would promote participation.<br> What are the goals? I haven't seen clear goals. I see some people have a goal of putting a short snippet of a gazetteer in the parish history section with a link for every parish in England. I see that some have a goal of putting the same template in the census section of every parish in England. I see some people have a goal of recording all the possible online church records for parishes in specific counties in England. There are only a few that have focused on a single parish or parishes. The goals for the [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes]] need to be specific. This idea of going from parish to parish putting the same snippet of information is a poor goal. Any body can goggle any parish in England and get all the information they need. How are the England parish pages going to be different? How is it going to be different from genuki? After years of slow growth it should become apparent that a different approach should be taken. This lack of England participation has to tell us that [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes]] needs to have specific goals that will lead to more participation. '''WikiProject_English_parishes''' pages needs to be rewritten and redeveloped. People should put there focus on a specific county or district. Thats my take on what I see [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 20:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)  
  
== Records questions ==
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== Projects ==
  
Does anyone monitor this [[:Category:Questions about Record Collections]]? It takes weeks or months for users to add the {{tl|Records question}} template in the first place {{Records question|category=}} and even then it appears the questions simply sit in this category unanswered. I don't think users expect to pose questions on the talk pages with the expectation that they will be answered months later or possibly never. Does the category need to be added to a list of maintenance tasks? -- [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 20:11, 15 July 2012 (UTC)  
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Steve, I'm trying to update the status of wiki projects. &nbsp;I'm assuming that the England and English Parishes projects are ongoing. &nbsp;Is that correct? &nbsp;Percent complete? [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 16:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)  
  
:This template is fairly new (created in January 2012) and I don't think the category is being monitored as well as it might. Most of the wiki support team are volunteers and have a range of tasks that they deal with. This specific template was created as many question were specific to the record collections and not general questions that the wiki support team could answer. However they could help monitoring the number outstanding and prompt the records team that many are still unanswered. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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Also, Wales and New Common Taxonomies [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 23:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)  
  
== Linking question  ==
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:Hi Lynda, yes these projects are all ongoing. The [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject England|England]], [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes|English parishes]] and [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject Wales|Wales]] WikiProjects are all similar in that the purpose of these projects is to improve the articles about these localities. They are very hard therefore to say how complete they are. Tasks within a project can more easily be stated as x% complete.
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:The [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject New Common Taxonomy|WikiProject New Common Taxonomy]] is in my mind, more of a foundational document, setting out the top-level categories to be used for research topics. It was renamed as a WikiProject by [[User:JensenFA|Fran Jensen]] and although I agree it belongs in the [[FamilySearch Wiki namespace]], I think it falls more into the realm of [[FamilySearch Wiki:Policies|policy]] - meaning that it defines how the taxonomy is organised/to be used in the wiki rather than being a project in which a goal is to be achieved.
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:Further to our discussion yesterday, I have created the {{tl|WikiProject status}} template. There are still some tidying up to do around this template, but you can start using them if you like. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 14:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
  
Hi Steve! Quick question...is it possible to force the wiki to open a new tab or new window when you click on a FamilySearch.org link? I'm thinking specifically of clicking on a FHLC or Historical Records collections link without losing the wiki page. Thanks! [[User:BatsonDL|BatsonDL]] 19:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)  
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Steve, thanks so much for this information and the templates look great! &nbsp;I hope you have a small idea of how much you are appreciated! [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 18:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)  
  
:Yes it is possible to include code to have links open in a new window/tab. Is there a consensus within FamilySearch that this should happen for links to collections?
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:For the inactive template, the page is&nbsp;[[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProjects Seeking Contributors/Inactive|FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProjects Seeking Contributors/Inactive]]. I'm not sure if doing it as a sub page is the best way to go, but that's how it is for now. [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 18:39, 17 January 2013 (UTC) &nbsp;Also, I put the template on the [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject Alabama|Alabama]] page and it looks like it didn't add it to the Inactive category.
  
:The default setting for how the wiki handles external links (ie those with the [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/skins/familysearch/images/external.png external.png] image) is defined in the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgExternalLinkTarget Setting $wgExternalLinkTarget]. If you wanted all external links to open in new windows/tabs an engineer would need to change this setting. However, whatever that setting is, you could add code to specific links so that it behaves as you define. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:38, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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::Hi Lynda, the categories associated with the template {{tl|WikiProject status}} are now being added when the template is used. I think setting up the list of inactive projects as a sub-page is the way to go. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 22:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
  
::No, there is no consensus or talk about changing all FamilySearch links. (Although I wish there was.) We are making some cemetery charts on Pennsylvania county pages linking to cemetery websites. &nbsp;And it is so nice for the person to click off to another page then easily get back to the chart for the next link. We wanted to make it consistant down the line with the FamilySearch.org link as well as the external links. We would use that code for the specific links only. Are there instructions somewhere? Thanks! [[User:BatsonDL|BatsonDL]] 21:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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:::Thank you! &nbsp;Thank you [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 22:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
  
== Hide/show link on navboxes ==
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== Thank you ==
  
Hi Steve, I have the Navbox template (renamed [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/es/Plantilla:Navegaci%C3%B3n Plantilla:Navegación]) working on the Spanish wiki, but the hide/show link is missing. Do you know why? Am I missing a sub-template? [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 06:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)  
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Thank you Steve I did not understand, thank you for your help {{unsigned|Jenson1| 16:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)}}
  
:Hi, you are not missing a sub-template, but the JavaScript coding needed for collapsible tables that can be found in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] and documented in [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Collapsible_elements Manual:Collapsible elements]. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
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== Categories that don't show up in edit  ==
  
::Hi Steve. Thanks for all your help. I went to add the JavaScript coding on the Spanish wiki. but I don't have the access level required to do so. I could ask Charles, but I'm not sure he has the ability to either. What should I do? [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 23:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
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We, the category committee, are working on cleaning up the Categories. One items that is a problem for us is the few categories that don't show up in edit so we can fix or remove them. Example is Category:Mexican_Family_History_Centers it has two pages [[Puebla Mexico Mayorazgo Family History Center]] and [[Tapachula Mexico Izapa Family History Center]]. Since the category is a duplicate of Category:Mexico_Family_History_Centers. I tried to remove the two page from Category:Mexican Family History Centers but they will not show in edit. Have a few others. Would like to ask if there is something we can do to understand this and work with it. [[User:Sandralpond|Sandralpond]] 03:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)  
  
:::Hi, I think you right. I don't think Charles has the rights to update the {{ill-2|es|MediaWiki:Common.js}}. A user needs ''administrator'' rights to edit pages in the [[MediaWiki namespace]]. There are only 7 such users listed [https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/es/index.php?title=Especial%3AListaUsuarios&username=&group=sysop&limit=50 Especial:ListaUsuarios]. I suggest you post something on their talk pages or on the {{ill-2|es|MediaWiki Discusión:Common.js}} talk page itself referring to the code used in the English version of the wiki. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 15:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Sandra, the pages in question were being added to this category via the <tt>location</tt> parameter in the {{tl|FHCpage}} template. By changing the parameter value from <tt>Mexican</tt> to <tt>Mexico</tt>, this changed the category, clearing out the unwanted category, which I have now deleted. I hope that helps explain how this was occurring. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 05:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
  
== Poor Law Template issue ==
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== Internal Links opening in a new tab/page ==
  
Steve,  
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Hi Steve, I'd like to revisit the idea of all internal links on FamilySearch open in a new tab or page. You mentioned last summer that it could be done for all links on the wiki through engineering. Is it a hard fix? In your opinion, what are the chances of them doing it if we asked? Unfortunately, I have a meeting every week at 2pm so I can't go to the tech meeting to ask. [[User:Batsondl|Batsondl]] 23:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
  
Thanks for cleaning up the England Poorhouses, Poor Law, etc. page and the changes I made to the Poor Law template. I do notice a problem with the template, though. At the bottom of the [[England Poorhouses, Poor Law, etc.|England Poorhouse, Poor Law, etc]]. page, the template renders a box, but the "Poor Law" links in the title and the "Records of the Poor" link just below the title aren't links. When looking at the [http://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Template:Poor_Law template page] itself, it renders correctly, and when the template is invoked on various other pages, it works correctly, but on this page and a few other pages, the template renders a box with those two links inactivated. I can't see what's wrong. Can you figure it out? [[User:MannAE|Alan]] 16:09, 25 July 2012 (UTC)  
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:I know there is a setting to change the behaviour of external link (see MediaWiki [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgExternalLinkTarget Manual:$wgExternalLinkTarget]). Do you mean external links? Or do you want a new window opened whenever a user goes to a different page in the wiki. I'm not sure, as a user if I would find that useful. In fact I'm certain I would find it annoying. I can't think of any website that automatically opens a new window when a link is followed. It is rare nowadays for this to happen for "external link" although I do remember when it was in vogue to do so. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 14:16, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
  
:Hi Alan, the way the template is working is how it is intended to work. When the template is added to a given page, if that page is linked to from the template, rather than a link showing the words are bolded. Look at the template on the [[England and Wales Poor Law Records Pre-1834|Pre-1834]] page or one of the county pages, for example [[Dorset Poor Law Unions]]. You will notice that on those pages the links to the same page are no longer links but bold text. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 15:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
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Oh, no not just a wiki page. No I meant when they click on a database or digital book on FamilySearch. Sorry about the confusion. We are doing some user testing and when they click on a FS database it doesn't open a new page and then they lose their place and can't find the wiki page they were on to see other sources, databases or instruction. I've always hated that myself. Is there a way to just open those and not all wiki pages? Maybe in the templates we use? [[User:Batsondl|Batsondl]] 16:21, 8 February 2013 (UTC)  
  
== Tables and templates (Replication) ==
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:OK, so are you talking about the links for example, in the header of articles about record collections, that follow the text ''Access the records:''. Eg [[England Births and Christenings (FamilySearch Historical Records)]]? Are you also talking about links to books, films in the FHLC? --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 14:17, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
  
Can tables be "saved" to be used like a template? Could a table be saved as a template? Need some guidance on this, and told you will know the answer. [[User:Donchallis|Donchallis]] 21:24, 26 July 2012 (UTC)  
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Changing the Historical Records pages would be awesome but Dorothy might not agree to that. I haven't talked to her. Yes, it's those in our locality article pages that link off to the databases, books, films in the FHLC.  I was thinking maybe the templates we use for them would be changed.  Although I'd love for it permanently to change all of them (which in turn would change Dorothy's HR pages) but I don't see engineering getting a chance to do it anytime soon.  But the truth is, I've never asked.  Can changing the templates work? I'm thinking of the FSbook, FHL, and RecordSearch templates. [[User:Batsondl|Batsondl]] 17:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
  
:Hi Don, yes tables can be used in [[Templates]]. Is that what you mean, when you say "like a template"? Anything that can be put on a regular page, can be used in a template. Templates can be used to repeat the same information in many places, so that when the template is edited all the places it has been used are updated in one go.
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:Hi Danielle, can you try the links you were interested in again. We raised this issue in the [[Tech Meeting]] and we believe it has now been fixed. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 21:17, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
  
:If you explain more about what you want to achieve, I'm sure that I will be able to help you create what is needed to do this. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:10, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
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==  User Canada and User Canadian templates reply ==
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''reply to [[User talk:Saskgenweb#Hello and Thank you]]''
  
I have a table that I want to have the table and headings with user data cells:
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Hi there
  
[https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Professional_Genealogists_Who_Specialize_in_Ohio_Research www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Professional_Genealogists_Who_Specialize_in_Ohio_Research]
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Thank you most kindly. I looked at some already started, and they seemed to go back and forth betwixt ancestry and residnce templates.&nbsp; I like your idea a lot! I am just new here, good find on the flag, I missed it in my first peek around and about for some reason.  
  
[[User:Donchallis|Donchallis]] 13:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)  
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Kind Regards [[User:Saskgenweb|Saskgenweb]] 00:54, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  
:Hi Don, I have looked at the table in the article [[Professional Genealogists Who Specialize in Ohio Research]]. If I understand your request, you would like to set-up a template that creates the framework for the table including the headers, but leaving the other cells blank ready for new data. On that basis I have created the template {{tl|Professional Genealogists Table}} which you can add to an article by using the code {{tls|Professional Genealogists Table}}. This will copy the wikicode for the table into the article in question. I have added documentation to the template to explain how this can be used, but please ask more questions of me here if I've not understood what you have asked of me. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 15:56, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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:You're welcome. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 13:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
  
== Wiki Project User boxes  ==
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== FHL template for an author search ==
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Hi, again, Steve. Any progress on this? I'd like to search for authors like "Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah." I think we don't have to include the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." that precedes it. Thanks again. AdkinsWH 18:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
  
Hi Steve, I haven't been on the wiki for a while and I seem to be having trouble finding the England and England Parishes project pages. The search engine does not work. I think it may be a good idea to create a user boxes for the County Discussion pages or other pages. I put the existing ones I found on [[Talk:Suffolk]]. Instead of saying ''Userbox for WikiProject England'' perhaps it should say '''Participate in WikiProject England''' The bottom part of the User Box may be worded differently as well. [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 02:06, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Wilma, apologies for taking my time to get around to develop this for you. I think I have amended the {{tl|FHL}} template so that a parameter can be specified to search for a "corporate name" For example {{tlx|FHL|Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah|corporate}} produces {{FHL|Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah|corporate}}. You can change the link/displayed text by using the {{xt|disp}} parameter. Let me know if this produces the results you were hoping for. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 22:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 
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:Hi Don, I have removed the userboxes that you placed on the [[Talk:Suffolk]] page and replaced them with the project template {{tl|WikiProject England}} which is designed to be used to mark articles within the scope of the [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject England]]. Does this solve the problem you and others may be having? I have added this template on some of the main topic pages for [[England]] (see [[:Category:WikiProject England articles]]), but it could and should be added to the talk pages of all the English County pages. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 16:18, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Steve, I think it might be useful to create a small box to put on the on county pages. I noticed on the [[England]] page that there are some small boxes along the left edge. It could be put there as well. Also for the England Parish WikiProject page as well. [[User:Donjgen|Donjgen]] 21:45, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Categories  ==
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Hi Steve,
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I hope I didn't cause you any headache with those cats. I had hoped you would have contacted me first before making any more changes. I suspected you might want to revert them, but wasn't sure. I did them all at the same time to make it easy to revert them using my edit history. Normally I would have left the cats alone, but I wanted to add the country cats to the records collections cats as I saw many of the individual pages were being added to the country cats.I wanted to do that before every country had hundreds of pages that would have to be recategorized. Have you got everything the way you want it or do you want my help to put things a certain way. -- [[User:Lotje2|Lotje2]] 06:55, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
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:No problem. I did leave a message on the [[Category talk:United Kingdom FamilySearch Historical Records]], which I see you have replied to. I did not think it was so important to leave a message on your user talk page if that is what you expected. I think adding the country categories to these FamilySearch Historical Records categories was a good idea. However I think it is important to have both "British Isles" and "United Kingdom" as sub-categories to "European". Yes the "United Kingdom" is within the "British Isles", but the British Isles is not a country itself and the majority of the other sub-categories within "European" are for countries. A case could be made to have "England", "Scotland" and "Wales" also added as sub-cats of "European", but I think having both "British Isles" and "United Kingdom" mitigates this need. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 12:54, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Talk:Durham  ==
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Hi Steve,
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Love your work in the Wiki. About the [[Talk:Durham]] discussion. I do agree with all you state and after waiting several months for someone to voice something; I have moved this page to show agreement, however with out other voices I can see your problem with making changes. I have seen that once something is done then the voices sometimes are brought out. I will assist you if this is your belief that this will help in the organization of the English pages. [[User:Sandralpond|Sandralpond]] 12:31, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Thanks Sandra, I appreciate your support. For now I will continue to wait. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 17:21, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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== PD-self template problems  ==
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Hi Steve,
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Any idea why this image is appearing as part of the PD-self template? {{PD-self}} <span style="font-size:90%;">— Preceding [[FamilySearch Wiki:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Murphynw|Murphynw]] ([[User talk:Murphynw|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Murphynw|contribs]]) 16:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
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:Hi Nathan, I found that the problem was being caused by an edit to the redirect [[Template:Image other]] by [[User:Lidursteler|Lidursteler]] who had added an image. I have undone the edit and the problem is fixed. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 17:09, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Image upload form  ==
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Steve, in our contributor meeting last week, we discussed the upload form for images. I'm going to do a sample of one with changes that were suggested. We're wondering if you know if we could have a drop down box on it for the CC licenses, like the one the page that we use to upload the images, from Special pages? [[User:Averyld|averyld]] 20:46, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Lynda, the list of licenses that is available from the [[Special:Upload]] page come from the [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] page. From what I understand the [[Special:EmailFile]] form was created by FamilySearch engineers. To add the list of licenses to this page would require a rewrite of this page by the FamilySearch engineers. In saying that I can't see any reason why this form could not be rewritten to include a drop down box using the [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] page so when that is updated the list of available options is also updated. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 17:19, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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Thanks. &nbsp;We've been given permission to come up with a better page for this and we'll ask the engineers to include that. &nbsp;We weren't sure how that had been done.[[User:Averyld|averyld]] 20:34, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Unexplained indenting on page  ==
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Hi, Steve, there is some unexplained indenting on our [[FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject Utah Experimental County#Birth|Experimental County]] page, starting with the Births area. It is just fine until the second span of years (1856-1897) which is indented and should not be -- and everything from that point on is indented further than intended. To me it looks like we have been careful to close indents. Do you see something I cannot because I am too close. Or is there a little blip in the program -- or could it be affected by the CSS? Do you have any ideas? The problem also occurs on pages where we are starting to adapt to the specific counties. Thanks, Steve, [[User:AdkinsWH|AdkinsWH]] 20:56, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Hi Wilma, I'm not sure exactly why, but this behaviour was being caused by indenting the {{tl|tip}} template in the '''Before 1856''' sub-section. I have removed the colon which was infront of the template and the following paragraphs are now line up as expected. --[[User:Cottrells|Steve]] {{toolbar|[[User talk:Cottrells|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cottrells|contribs]]}} 21:17, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Thanks, Steve. You are a genius! Wilma
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== Problems with Templates and Image Maps ==
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Hi Steve, I am currently involved with an ongoing Massachusetts Wiki Project. David Dilts suggested that I contact you. Lately I have been working on creating some clickable maps. I recently added a clickable map for Plymouth County, Massachusetts (See Template:PlyCoMAmap). In the past when I created a clickable map we added the information to a template page because there is so much wiki code associated with the image map. I added the Plymouth County map the same way I have in the past but ran into some unexpected results. I was able to finagle the template page so that it will show the map when users go to the template page. However, if they try to edit the template page, instead of seeing all the wiki code, they see a message "Error: image is invalid or non-existent." If a person was to make any modification to the page and then save, the map will disappear and it is no longer functionable. Can you tell me why we get an error message when we click on edit? Where is all the wiki data used to make the map clickable going? The map continues to works just fine. Should I be doing something different as I add more clickable maps?
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In addition to what I mentioned above, when I go to the template pages we created for putting our map images on (see Template:MAPlyAbiMap), all I see is the name of the image, orientation details, and picture description. Where did our image go? The image no longer shows. The map displays on the Wiki pages we insert the template code on, but the template itself is confusing to me. Any thoughts? I will be adding roughly 300 clickable maps over the next month and want to make sure that I do it the right way. Any help you can give would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. [[User:HarrisonJB|HarrisonJB]] 17:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
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Problems with Templates and Image Maps

Hi Steve, I am currently involved with an ongoing Massachusetts Wiki Project. David Dilts suggested that I contact you. Lately I have been working on creating some clickable maps. I recently added a clickable map for Plymouth County, Massachusetts (See Template:PlyCoMAmap). In the past when I created a clickable map we added the information to a template page because there is so much wiki code associated with the image map. I added the Plymouth County map the same way I have in the past but ran into some unexpected results. I was able to finagle the template page so that it will show the map when users go to the template page. However, if they try to edit the template page, instead of seeing all the wiki code, they see a message "Error: image is invalid or non-existent." If a person was to make any modification to the page and then save, the map will disappear and it is no longer functionable. Can you tell me why we get an error message when we click on edit? Where is all the wiki data used to make the map clickable going? The map continues to works just fine. Should I be doing something different as I add more clickable maps?

In addition to what I mentioned above, when I go to the template pages we created for putting our map images on (see Template:MAPlyAbiMap), all I see is the name of the image, orientation details, and picture description. Where did our image go? The image no longer shows. The map displays on the Wiki pages we insert the template code on, but the template itself is confusing to me. Any thoughts? I will be adding roughly 300 clickable maps over the next month and want to make sure that I do it the right way. Any help you can give would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. HarrisonJB 17:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jason, the problem with the imagemaps is a known issue. The workaround is to add the Magic word __NORICHEDITOR__ to the template (within noinclude tags), so that the Rich Text Editor is disabled when you edit the imagemap. I have edited {{PlyCoMAmap}} so that this is now in place. The other template was set-up by David as a way to add a caption to the image that is displayed on the page Abington, Massachusetts without subsequent edits removing it. This is another workaround to a problem caused by the Rich Text Editor. If you want to change this into an imagemap, you will also need to edit the code on the Abington, Massachusetts so that it just calls the template, stripping away the [[Image: and ]] parts of the code. --Steve (talk| contribs) 12:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

England Gazetteers

There still seems to be FHL contributors working on alphabetical listings from a single source conflicting with contributors who have contributed local knowledge of parishes and the record sources - Downe, Kent - Keston, Kent - Cudham, Kent as well as neighbouring parishes all have Online Parish Clerks. Some colleagues are unwilling to take the time and effort to create FamilySearch Wiki content to have gazetteer material entered and conflicting. In some counties large slabs of material exist as parish history which are in fact text from other web sites (including copyright). I have made the point in forum post that an 1848 gazetteer entry may not be useful, a later gazetter may be more informative and the Kent Online Parish Clerk site has even more information including a satellite image and might be a more informative link to include under the "maps and gazetteer" heading rather than dropping gazetteer entries for an entire county into parish history pages. This seems to be a recipe for needless discussion and conflict in every English county. Many English contributors have ceased contributing citing lack of communication from FHL contributors. We do not seem to be any "further forrarder" on this issue than earlier this year or in any of the previous years it has arisen! I think it sad that we are alienating English genealogists and AGRA members through unresolved organisational problems arising from America.If possible could you convey that it might be better to work with an Online Parish Clerk who has invested huge effort in a parish history and records rather than drop in gazetteer material as part of a mechanical process in alphabetical order; the heading gazetteer is also a clue to where such entries should be placed. DowneOPC 06:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Henry, this issue was discussed during the weekly Wiki Contributors Meeting on November 8, as a result of your forum post on the issue. Those attending the meeting agreed to the points that you raised. Some wondered why the change was not just made and explain in the edit summary or on the article talk page. I sence that UK based contributors are trying to engage with FHL staff about developing pages/edits, but do not receive replies to their questions. Anyhow following the meeting I moved the gazetter text from the history section to the gazetter section of the Downe, Kent article and left a message on the user talk page of the contributor. Hopefully the message will get back to the staff at the FHL to be more considerate of the information already developed on a page, before adding additional information. I agree that a multi sourced parish history is preferable to a single source gazetteer extract. Would you and other OPC/AGRA members be willing to help develop the instructions for developing English Parish articles in the WikiProject English parishes? --Steve (talk| contribs) 13:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


Thanks, in answer to your final question I can only speak personally and will try to contribute wherever possible. I lead a group of transcribers. We have 3 parish Cooperative Indexing agreements in place with FamilySearch which await a response from them and we hope to obtain Diocesan permission to add a further parish for agreement to transcribe in 2014. The agreements are taking more than 6 months for FamilySearch to respond to once submitted with both archive and Diocesan approval and support. Wherever possible I try to describe the surviving record which I am permitted to handle in order that the viewer of a microfilm or digitised image can make sense of the images, duplicates and why entries appear out of sequence, gaps and other unique aspects of an individual register.(One Downe register has been bound in a deed which bears no relationship to the parish) As volunteers our priority is to transcribe so that writing parish histories is the latter stage of OPC page development of our site and involves a different type of research in many source materials which we include in our page creation. Any contribution to other media (print and electronic) is a lower priority. FamilySearch material forms a small part of the total parish material; the larger part is on average spread in up to 14 archives for a typical Kent parish. Another high priority is to respond to email requests for assistance in researching within a local district including the parish concerned.

I am afraid that in the professional community in England that many contributors have reported negative experiences of trying to contribute and the Americanised format (and language) of the FamilySearch wiki derivative of Wikipedia. Sadly each contributor lost is influential in influencing others. There is an effort in Wikipedia to cover all civil parishes in England and local county initiatives to list places of worship. I would comment that Wikipedia went through this process early in its development; there was an American perception that English contributors were "difficult" to involve or retain. There was likewise an English perception that if contributing became a negative experience it was better not to invest time and effort to see content removed or "put down" by a small clique appearing to dominate. Here the FHL contributors need not to alienate or appear to be more influential but to enter into discussion about use of a source to complement the existing contributions. Gazetteers (plural) are cited on all Kent Online Parish Clerk page creations which begs  the question why not link in the relevant heading to that available online source rather than paste material for one gazetteer only?

Template on a non-activated category.

The template page Template:Xyzy is on a non-activated Category page: Category:Script templates. Do we need it? Or do you want this category activitied. Sandralpond 15:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Sandra, the template is needed/used and the category is appropriate. I have today set it up. --Steve (talk| contribs) 14:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

Steve thanks so much for the FA change. Dawne 14:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

FHL template for an author search?

Hi, Steve. Is there an FHL template where a search can be done by name of the author? I want to be able to search for ward records, all of which have the beginning of "Church of Jesus Christ..." and end with the specific ward. That would make it easy to change ward by ward. Any ideas? AdkinsWH 02:59, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi Wilma, I have briefly looked at this issue.It may be possible to add the functionality to the {{FHL}} template, but more investigation needs to be undertaken done before I can answer and hopefully implement your request. --Steve (talk| contribs) 13:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Steve! AdkinsWH 21:03, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi, again, Steve. Any progress on this? I'd like to search for authors like "Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah." I think we don't have to include the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." that precedes it. Thanks again. AdkinsWH 18:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

England Parish Histories

2012 was a good year for the Suffolk Parish pages. There have been a few instances where volunteers have sought to tear down what I have built rather than improve it. What volunteers I have come across have no interest in collaborating, rather they have an agenda of copying and pasting similar dialogue on every page. What they are copying and pasting is rather weak material. Parish History Section - I cannot accept that a short one or two sentences with a link to a gazetteer should be in anyway be considered a parish history. The approach to the Parish History Section is very simple. Enter websites, links and references in the body of the page and once a sufficient amount of material has been found, then a history can be written based on those sources from a genealogist perspective. A new wiki article should be created, England - Writing a Parish History. This short gazetteer entry currently being introduced should be moved or put in the Maps and Gazetteers Section. Pertaining to Suffolk pages I noticed recently that someone is entering those gazetteer entries again and at the same time removing the link to the Suffolk Gazetteer page. Could you use the text replace function to place a link to the Suffolk Gazetteer page in the Maps and Gazetteer section for every parish in Suffolk? Donjgen 18:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC) I'll also place a copy of this over on User talk:MannAE page.

Hi Don, I agree that there is room for improvement in the way that contributors work together and not at cross purposes to each other. I'm sure that the majority of wiki contributor have the same goal to improve the content of the wiki and I really feel that WikiProject pages can help with this by setting out long term vision for a collection of similar pages, for example Suffolk Parishes. Contributors by reviewing the project page information can then be directed to articles, like the one you suggested, so that a consistent approach is taken with developing similar pages. The Parish History section and what kind of content should be placed here is a good example of where this collaboration could achieve much good. I will look into restoring the links to the Suffolk Gazetteers page. Before I take action I will investigate how best to do this. --Steve (talk| contribs) 13:58, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Steve: I could take the time to create a WikiProject - Suffolk Parishes but I have seen such anemic participation. Since I am focusing on Suffolk, I would expect participation from people in East Anglia. There needs to be a person in East Anglia that would promote participation.
What are the goals? I haven't seen clear goals. I see some people have a goal of putting a short snippet of a gazetteer in the parish history section with a link for every parish in England. I see that some have a goal of putting the same template in the census section of every parish in England. I see some people have a goal of recording all the possible online church records for parishes in specific counties in England. There are only a few that have focused on a single parish or parishes. The goals for the FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes need to be specific. This idea of going from parish to parish putting the same snippet of information is a poor goal. Any body can goggle any parish in England and get all the information they need. How are the England parish pages going to be different? How is it going to be different from genuki? After years of slow growth it should become apparent that a different approach should be taken. This lack of England participation has to tell us that FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProject English parishes needs to have specific goals that will lead to more participation. WikiProject_English_parishes pages needs to be rewritten and redeveloped. People should put there focus on a specific county or district. Thats my take on what I see Donjgen 20:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Projects

Steve, I'm trying to update the status of wiki projects.  I'm assuming that the England and English Parishes projects are ongoing.  Is that correct?  Percent complete? averyld 16:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, Wales and New Common Taxonomies averyld 23:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Lynda, yes these projects are all ongoing. The England, English parishes and Wales WikiProjects are all similar in that the purpose of these projects is to improve the articles about these localities. They are very hard therefore to say how complete they are. Tasks within a project can more easily be stated as x% complete.
The WikiProject New Common Taxonomy is in my mind, more of a foundational document, setting out the top-level categories to be used for research topics. It was renamed as a WikiProject by Fran Jensen and although I agree it belongs in the FamilySearch Wiki namespace, I think it falls more into the realm of policy - meaning that it defines how the taxonomy is organised/to be used in the wiki rather than being a project in which a goal is to be achieved.
Further to our discussion yesterday, I have created the {{WikiProject status}} template. There are still some tidying up to do around this template, but you can start using them if you like. --Steve (talk| contribs) 14:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Steve, thanks so much for this information and the templates look great!  I hope you have a small idea of how much you are appreciated! averyld 18:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

For the inactive template, the page is FamilySearch Wiki:WikiProjects Seeking Contributors/Inactive. I'm not sure if doing it as a sub page is the best way to go, but that's how it is for now. averyld 18:39, 17 January 2013 (UTC)  Also, I put the template on the Alabama page and it looks like it didn't add it to the Inactive category.
Hi Lynda, the categories associated with the template {{WikiProject status}} are now being added when the template is used. I think setting up the list of inactive projects as a sub-page is the way to go. --Steve (talk| contribs) 22:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you!  Thank you averyld 22:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you Steve I did not understand, thank you for your help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jenson1 (talk | contribs) 16:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Categories that don't show up in edit

We, the category committee, are working on cleaning up the Categories. One items that is a problem for us is the few categories that don't show up in edit so we can fix or remove them. Example is Category:Mexican_Family_History_Centers it has two pages Puebla Mexico Mayorazgo Family History Center and Tapachula Mexico Izapa Family History Center. Since the category is a duplicate of Category:Mexico_Family_History_Centers. I tried to remove the two page from Category:Mexican Family History Centers but they will not show in edit. Have a few others. Would like to ask if there is something we can do to understand this and work with it. Sandralpond 03:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sandra, the pages in question were being added to this category via the location parameter in the {{FHCpage}} template. By changing the parameter value from Mexican to Mexico, this changed the category, clearing out the unwanted category, which I have now deleted. I hope that helps explain how this was occurring. --Steve (talk| contribs) 05:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Internal Links opening in a new tab/page

Hi Steve, I'd like to revisit the idea of all internal links on FamilySearch open in a new tab or page. You mentioned last summer that it could be done for all links on the wiki through engineering. Is it a hard fix? In your opinion, what are the chances of them doing it if we asked? Unfortunately, I have a meeting every week at 2pm so I can't go to the tech meeting to ask. Batsondl 23:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I know there is a setting to change the behaviour of external link (see MediaWiki Manual:$wgExternalLinkTarget). Do you mean external links? Or do you want a new window opened whenever a user goes to a different page in the wiki. I'm not sure, as a user if I would find that useful. In fact I'm certain I would find it annoying. I can't think of any website that automatically opens a new window when a link is followed. It is rare nowadays for this to happen for "external link" although I do remember when it was in vogue to do so. --Steve (talk| contribs) 14:16, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, no not just a wiki page. No I meant when they click on a database or digital book on FamilySearch. Sorry about the confusion. We are doing some user testing and when they click on a FS database it doesn't open a new page and then they lose their place and can't find the wiki page they were on to see other sources, databases or instruction. I've always hated that myself. Is there a way to just open those and not all wiki pages? Maybe in the templates we use? Batsondl 16:21, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, so are you talking about the links for example, in the header of articles about record collections, that follow the text Access the records:. Eg England Births and Christenings (FamilySearch Historical Records)? Are you also talking about links to books, films in the FHLC? --Steve (talk| contribs) 14:17, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Changing the Historical Records pages would be awesome but Dorothy might not agree to that. I haven't talked to her. Yes, it's those in our locality article pages that link off to the databases, books, films in the FHLC. I was thinking maybe the templates we use for them would be changed. Although I'd love for it permanently to change all of them (which in turn would change Dorothy's HR pages) but I don't see engineering getting a chance to do it anytime soon. But the truth is, I've never asked. Can changing the templates work? I'm thinking of the FSbook, FHL, and RecordSearch templates. Batsondl 17:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Danielle, can you try the links you were interested in again. We raised this issue in the Tech Meeting and we believe it has now been fixed. --Steve (talk| contribs) 21:17, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

User Canada and User Canadian templates reply

reply to User talk:Saskgenweb#Hello and Thank you

Hi there

Thank you most kindly. I looked at some already started, and they seemed to go back and forth betwixt ancestry and residnce templates.  I like your idea a lot! I am just new here, good find on the flag, I missed it in my first peek around and about for some reason.

Kind Regards Saskgenweb 00:54, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. --Steve (talk| contribs) 13:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

FHL template for an author search

Hi, again, Steve. Any progress on this? I'd like to search for authors like "Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah." I think we don't have to include the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." that precedes it. Thanks again. AdkinsWH 18:50, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Wilma, apologies for taking my time to get around to develop this for you. I think I have amended the {{FHL}} template so that a parameter can be specified to search for a "corporate name" For example {{FHL|Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah|corporate}} produces FHL Corporate Name Salt Lake City 4th Ward Utah. You can change the link/displayed text by using the disp parameter. Let me know if this produces the results you were hoping for. --Steve (talk| contribs) 22:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)